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 La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise

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Arnaud Dumouch

Arnaud Dumouch


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La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise Empty
MessageSujet: La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise   La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise EmptyJeu 17 Avr - 11:54

«Le scandale des prêtres pédophiles a été mal géré»





C. M. (lefigaro.fr) avec AFP
17/04/2008 | Mise à jour : 08:07 |

Commentaires La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise Bulle_comment 13


.





La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise C209c68e-0c3f-11dd-91c5-2fc80a93764e

Crédits photo : AP




Pour
la première fois, Benoît XVI a admis les erreurs du clergé dans la
gestion de l'affaire. Il a toutefois mis en cause les mœurs sexuelles
de la société américaine.





Le
scandale des prêtres pédophiles américains est un motif de «honte
profonde» et de «souffrances énormes» pour l'Eglise catholique, a
réaffirmé le Pape, après avoir déjà fait part de sa «honte» mardi dans
l'avion qui le conduisait aux Etats-Unis. Après avoir été reçu dans la
matinée à la Maison-Blanche, où il a prié avec le président George W.
Bush, Benoît XVI s'adressait aux évêques américains rassemblés à la
basilique du sanctuaire national de l'Immaculée conception, sur le
campus de l'Université catholique à Washington. Il a reconnu que «cette
situation» avait été «parfois très mal gérée» et souligné que «la
compassion et l'attention aux victimes» devait être une «priorité». Mais
le Pape ne s'en est pas tenu à ces propos. Il a aussi estimé que
l'action de l'Eglise devait se déployer «dans un contexte plus large»,
replaçant le «péché des abus» sexuels dans le cadre «des mœurs
sexuelles» de la société américaine. «Que signifie de parler de
protection de l'enfant quand la pornographie et la violence peuvent
être regardées dans de nombreux foyers à travers les médias largement
accessibles aujourd'hui?», a-t-il interrogé. Selon le souverain
pontife, «tous ont leur rôle à jouer» pour offrir une «formation morale
solide aux jeunes comme aux adultes», «pas seulement les parents, les
dirigeants religieux, les enseignants et les catéchistes, mais aussi
les médias et l'industrie des loisirs». Le vaste scandale d'abus
sexuels sur mineurs progressivement mis au jour dans l'Eglise
américaine à partir de 2002 a impliqué plus de 4.000 prêtres (sur
45.000), mis en cause par les victimes qui ont aussi accusé les évêques
d'avoir fermé les yeux voire protégé les coupables. L'Eglise américaine
a dû verser plus de trois milliards de dollars aux victimes mais
beaucoup d'entre elles estiment que le mea culpa de la hiérarchie reste
insuffisant.

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La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise Empty
MessageSujet: Re: La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise   La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise EmptyJeu 17 Avr - 12:25

Oui, mais la messe que ces prêtres célèbrent dans leur prison, est valide.

En quel honneur, ces messieurs journalistes jugent-ils qu'une demande de pardon (quel que soit l'objet du péché), en vertu de quoi 'cela resterait insuffisant ?' Si l'on se place au-dessus du Pardon de Dieu, c'est mal barré.
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bajulum




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La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise Empty
MessageSujet: Re: La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise   La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise EmptyJeu 17 Avr - 12:44

10 % de prêtres pédophiles, ça me semble beaucoup. Si ces chiffres sont établis, ce n'est plus une question de "gestion", mais de recrutement, de formation, de contrôle ...

Ceci étant, sans contester de caractère éminemment condamnable de ces actes eu égard à la personne de leurs auteurs, il faut sans doute en relativiser certains que la déification du corps grossit au préjudice des victimes elles-mêmes.
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Arnaud Dumouch

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La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise Empty
MessageSujet: Re: La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise   La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise EmptyJeu 17 Avr - 15:56

Oui, 10%, c'est un chiffre de journaliste, dirait-on. Pas une statistique réelle.

1% suffisent car le mal fait 100 fois plus de bruit que le bien.

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Tourterelle

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La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise Empty
MessageSujet: Re: La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise   La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise EmptyJeu 17 Avr - 23:48

Oui, mais ces prêtre viennent de où selon vous? Ils viennent de la société... Donc ils faisaient partie d'une famille, il étaient des oncles, des frères, des cousins... L'église n'a pas créé des pédophiles ni des violeurs... Ces personnes faisaient partie de la société bien avant d'être des prêtres... Idea Il est bien possible que certains d'entre eux ont fuit leurs mauvaises tendances ou déviations (se sentant coupable) en décidant de devenir prètre... Mais cela n'a pas règler leur problème et finalement ils sont devenus le problème de l'église alors qu'ils sont issus de la société (problème de la société effectivement)...
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Isabelle




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La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise Empty
MessageSujet: Re: La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise   La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise EmptyVen 18 Avr - 13:01

Bonjour a tous

Je vous mets l'extrait du discours du Saint Pere relatif aux scandales pedophiles. ( Discours de Benoit XVI aux eveques assembles a la basilique du sanctuaire national de l'Immaculee Conception a Wadhington le 17 avril 2008 )
Il s'agit du texte en Anglais. Je n'ai pas trouve la traduction francaise et n'ai pas le temps de le traduire maintenant. Cela dit le texte original permet de recentrer le debat sur ce qu'a effectivement dit le Saint Pere. Peu importent les commentaires de la presse de n'importe quel pays Smile

"Among the countersigns to the Gospel of life found in America and elsewhere is one that causes deep shame: the sexual abuse of minors. Many of you have spoken to me of the enormous pain that your communities have suffered when clerics have betrayed their priestly obligations and duties by such gravely immoral behavior. As you strive to eliminate this evil wherever it occurs, you may be assured of the prayerful support of God’s people throughout the world. Rightly, you attach priority to showing compassion and care to the victims. It is your God-given responsibility as pastors to bind up the wounds caused by every breach of trust, to foster healing, to promote reconciliation and to reach out with loving concern to those so seriously wronged.

Responding to this situation has not been easy and, as the President of your Episcopal Conference has indicated, it was “sometimes very badly handled”. Now that the scale and gravity of the problem is more clearly understood, you have been able to adopt more focused remedial and disciplinary measures and to promote a safe environment that gives greater protection to young people. While it must be remembered that the overwhelming majority of clergy and religious in America do outstanding work in bringing the liberating message of the Gospel to the people entrusted to their care, it is vitally important that the vulnerable always be shielded from those who would cause harm. In this regard, your efforts to heal and protect are bearing great fruit not only for those directly under your pastoral care, but for all of society.

If they are to achieve their full purpose, however, the policies and programs you have adopted need to be placed in a wider context. Children deserve to grow up with a healthy understanding of sexuality and its proper place in human relationships. They should be spared the degrading manifestations and the crude manipulation of sexuality so prevalent today. They have a right to be educated in authentic moral values rooted in the dignity of the human person. This brings us back to our consideration of the centrality of the family and the need to promote the Gospel of life. What does it mean to speak of child protection when pornography and violence can be viewed in so many homes through media widely available today? We need to reassess urgently the values underpinning society, so that a sound moral formation can be offered to young people and adults alike. All have a part to play in this task — not only parents, religious leaders, teachers and catechists, but the media and entertainment industries as well. Indeed, every member of society can contribute to this moral renewal and benefit from it. Truly caring about young people and the future of our civilization means recognizing our responsibility to promote and live by the authentic moral values which alone enable the human person to flourish. It falls to you, as pastors modelled upon Christ, the Good Shepherd, to proclaim this message loud and clear, and thus to address the sin of abuse within the wider context of sexual mores. Moreover, by acknowledging and confronting the problem when it occurs in an ecclesial setting, you can give a lead to others, since this scourge is found not only within your Dioceses, but in every sector of society. It calls for a determined, collective response.

Priests, too, need your guidance and closeness during this difficult time. They have experienced shame over what has occurred, and there are those who feel they have lost some of the trust and esteem they once enjoyed. Not a few are experiencing a closeness to Christ in his Passion as they struggle to come to terms with the consequences of the crisis. The Bishop, as father, brother and friend of his priests, can help them to draw spiritual fruit from this union with Christ by making them aware of the Lord’s consoling presence in the midst of their suffering, and by encouraging them to walk with the Lord along the path of hope (cf. Spe Salvi, 39). As Pope John Paul II observed six years ago, “we must be confident that this time of trial will bring a purification of the entire Catholic community”, leading to “a holier priesthood, a holier episcopate and a holier Church” (Address to the Cardinals of the United States, 23 April 2002, 4). There are many signs that, during the intervening period, such purification has indeed been taking place. Christ’s abiding presence in the midst of our suffering is gradually transforming our darkness into light: all things are indeed being made new in Christ Jesus our hope.

At this stage a vital part of your task is to strengthen relationships with your clergy, especially in those cases where tension has arisen between priests and their bishops in the wake of the crisis. It is important that you continue to show them your concern, to support them, and to lead by example. In this way you will surely help them to encounter the living God, and point them towards the life-transforming hope of which the Gospel speaks. If you yourselves live in a manner closely configured to Christ, the Good Shepherd, who laid down his life for his sheep, you will inspire your brother priests to rededicate themselves to the service of their flocks with Christ-like generosity. Indeed a clearer focus upon the imitation of Christ in holiness of life is exactly what is needed in order for us to move forward. We need to rediscover the joy of living a Christ-centred life, cultivating the virtues, and immersing ourselves in prayer. When the faithful know that their pastor is a man who prays and who dedicates his life to serving them, they respond with warmth and affection which nourishes and sustains the life of the whole community."

Mes remarques, un peu en vrac...
La visite du Saint Pere aux Etats Unis est tres importante pour les catholiques americains en cette periode de crise suite aux abus des pretres pedophiles (que le Saint Pere qualifie de comportement gravement contraire a la morale), a la recherche d'identite avec la montee en nombre des catholiques mexicains sur le sol US, au fait que les US sont en periode electorale et au relativisme des societes occidentales.
Je suis de pres le voyage du Saint Pere et, comme d'habitude, il est impressionnant de simplicite et de verite.

Le Saint Pere en reconnaissant le probleme, permet de le "soigner". Il le fait avec un tact extraordinaire.
Il reconnait la souffrance et la detresse des pretres et des fideles "normaux" et affirme le devoir des eveques de venir en aide aux victimes de ces actes abominables.
Il a egalement recu a la Nonciature de Washington un groupe de victimes des abus. Geste important et reconnu comme un pas essentiel vers la guerison par les associations de victimes.
Mais pour une fois les "victimes collaterales" sont aussi reconnues.... C'est important dans le processus de guerison de tous.
Et c'est tres bien de reconnaitre aussi que le problem parfois ete tres mal traite.
Aucune responsabilite n'est niee. Et personne n'est oublie...

Le Saint pere replace aussi les problemes dans leur contexte general ( culture deletere, pornographique et decadente - les qualificatifs sont de moi) et met les eveques US (les autres aussi, meme s'ils ne le prennent pas pour eux...) devant leurs responsabilites: promouvoir, soutenir et aider la famille et les familles mais aussi aimer et soutenir leurs pretres, comme des peres et des freres....

Le blabla du Figaro sur le fait que "beaucoup d'entre elles estiment que le mea culpa de la hiérarchie reste
insuffisant." n'est que cela... du blabla de journalistes...

Je pense que nous, les catholiques, devons cesser de nous laisser troubler par les medias (ils ne font que de la surenchere sur tout...) ou effrayer par les agitations du monde. Il faut rester concentres sur l'oeuvre a accomplir dans la Joie et la Serenite....
Et le Saint Pere nous redonne constamment l'energie et l'ardeur necessaires.
Et je pense que, concernant les horreurs des pretres pedophiles, notre premier et en fait unique devoir est de prier pour tous et pour leur guerison. Il ne faut pas gratter les plaies, ni oublier ou nier la blessures. Nous aurons beau disserter et dire c'est horrible pour telle ou telle raison, cela n'aidera personne a avancer mais laissera tout le monde fixe sur un abces purulent, incapables d'agir.
Le Saint Pere nous montre le chemin en exprimant clairement que c'est un scandale et il donne clairement les moyens d'avancer en mettant chacun face a ses responsabilites...

La priere est notre meilleure arme pour toutes les victimes, mais reflechissons egalement comment nous pouvons agir, un tout petit peu, tout simplement chaque jour au coeur de nos familles et / ou de nos milieux professionnels...

_________________
Isabelle
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Oculus

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La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise Empty
MessageSujet: Re: La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise   La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise EmptyVen 18 Avr - 13:51

Il est étonnant de voir les différences de problèmes entre les différents Pays catholiques .
Depuis les années 1975-80, environ 60 000 prêtres dans le monde ont quitté leur ministère .
Beaucoup dans notre pays se sont mariés tout en continuant à souhaiter exercer un rôle dans l'Eglise.
Mais plus fondamentalement , je pense qu'on ne peut pas éviter de se poser la question du lien entre tous ces problèmes et le célibat sacerdotal , mesure de discipline canonique de l'Eglise catholique et romaine occidentale, puisque certaines eglises orientales rattachées à Rome n'y sont pas soumises de par le code de droit canon des eglises orientales .

d'abord , je tiens à affirmer farouchement que je tiens à ce que le célibat sacerdotal demeure une forme de vie authentique et sainte pour de nombreux prêtres . Ce qui me fait dire cela c'est certainement l'exemple rayonnant de Jean-Paul II.
pour moi , il demeure l'exemple du prêtre saint, équilibré, aimant
tout le monde d'un amour de charité et n'évitant pas les rencontre avec les femmes qu'il a beaucoup aidées et enseignées et les enfants qu'il ne manquait jamais de bénir .
Cette vie totalement Oblative et affectivement enracinée dans une prière contemplative d'une profondeur extraordinaire, je reconnais que certains prêtres peuvent y arriver .
Mais pour beaucoup je pense qu'il s'agit de la voie étroite de l'évangile que beaucoup cherchent et que bien peu trouvent et empruntent.
Or la vie humaine est longue maintenant ( 3 fois plus qu'à l'époque du Christ ) , la pastorale ne peut conduire à éviter toutes les tentations , et elles sont nombreuses , à commencer
comme le dit le pape par la pornographie sur Internet .
l'équilibre affectif et humain d'une vie de prêtre célibataire jeune me semble extrêmement vulnérable et fragile.

Il y a un rapport entre le célibat non choisi et l'homosexualité.
car il ne reste alors que l'autosexualité qui me semble difficilement évitable . Et l'autosexualité est une forme d'homosexualité qui mène à l'homosexualité .
N'oublions pas que la quasi totalité des cas de pédophilie concerne des jeunes Garçons ou adolescents , rarement des filles .

Il me semble extraordinaire de voir l'acharnement que l'on met à
nier les problèmes non révélés ou tenus secrets, minimiser ceux qu'on a pas réussi à étouffer , surtout à ne pas relier tous ces problèmes à cette discipline ecclésiatique qui me semble entrainer de grandes souffrances pour ( au moins ) 90% des prêtres et de grandes déviances pour un pourcentage non négligeable.
Cet aveuglement n'est pas évangélique .
à coté de la voie royale et sainte que demeurera toujours le célibat LIBREMENT choisi, il faut ouvrir d'autres voies à ceux qui ne pourront jamais y trouver leur équilibre affectif et humain et
qui risqueront d'y perdre le sens de leur vie et l'honneur de leur Eglise. Il est Absolument IMPOSSIBLE de les dépister avant
l'ordination ou au séminaire , personne ne nait pédophile !!!
personne ne se connait confronté à des tentations que l'on a jamais connues !! c'est encore une fois un aveuglement insensé que de le prétendre et sur ce point je pense que le pape s'illusionne totalement .
Les Evêques peuvent , en demandant une dispense à Rome, ordonner des hommes mariés et vivant maritalement , Prêtres, comme ils le font pour les diacres permanents.
Il doivent explorer d'autres voies et ne pas laisser leur Eglise
crispée sur une règle de discipline qui me semble définitivement dépassée, c'est leur responsabilité et elle est tout aussi lourde que celle qui consiste à ne pas étouffer les scandales et à mettre les enfants à l'abri de toutes les agressions .
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La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise Empty
MessageSujet: Re: La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise   La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise EmptyVen 18 Avr - 13:57

Oculus. BRAVO. Sans commentaires. MERCI, MERCI.
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Arnaud Dumouch

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La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise Empty
MessageSujet: Re: La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise   La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise EmptyVen 18 Avr - 14:13

Oculus a écrit:

Il y a un rapport entre le célibat non choisi et l'homosexualité.
car
il ne reste alors que l'autosexualité qui me semble difficilement
évitable . Et l'autosexualité est une forme d'homosexualité qui mène à
l'homosexualité .
N'oublions pas que la quasi totalité des cas de pédophilie concerne des jeunes Garçons ou adolescents , rarement des filles

Je ne crois que le lien que vous faites est juste.

La auto sexualité ne conduit pas à l'homosexualité. La masturbation se nourrit des fantasmes selon l'orientation sexuelle de celui qui s'y livre.

autrement dit, pédophiles, homosexuels et hétérosexuels se donnent les fantasmes qui correspondent à l'orientation sexuelle qu'il ont entretenu dans l'adolescence.

Un pédophile est un homme psychologiquement perturbé. Un prêtre équilibré, s'il est tenté au plan de la pureté, le sera par la survenue d'une femme dont il tombe amoureux.

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La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise Empty
MessageSujet: Re: La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise   La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise EmptyVen 18 Avr - 14:59

Sauf erreur de ma part, il me semble que pour les Eglises Orientales rattachées à Rome un homme célibataire qui est ordonné prêtre ne peut pas se marier ensuite, mais un homme marié peut accéder au sacerdoce.

Oculus a écrit:
Cette vie totalement Oblative et affectivement enracinée dans une prière contemplative d'une profondeur extraordinaire, je reconnais que certains prêtres peuvent y arriver .
Mais pour beaucoup je pense qu'il s'agit de la voie étroite de l'évangile que beaucoup cherchent et que bien peu trouvent et empruntent.
Or la vie humaine est longue maintenant ( 3 fois plus qu'à l'époque du Christ ) , la pastorale ne peut conduire à éviter toutes les tentations , et elles sont nombreuses , à commencer
comme le dit le pape par la pornographie sur Internet .
l'équilibre affectif et humain d'une vie de prêtre célibataire jeune me semble extrêmement vulnérable et fragile.

Je partage l'avis d'Oculus sur ce que j'ai mis en évidence en gras.
Personne ne peut être certain à 100%, que ce soit un jeune prêtre ou un jeune laïc marié, qu'il ne succombera pas à la tentation de "l'adultère" un jour ou l'autre.

Cela dépend de l'équilibre affectif acquis ou non depuis la toute petite enfance. S'il y a eu des blessures affectives durant cette période tôt ou tard elles ressortent et les risques de chute sont grands, surtout à notre époque.

C'est pourquoi, à mon avis, il est nécessaire que pour les jeunes qui désirent s'engager vers le sacerdoce, il y ait un profond et long discernement non seulement sur l'appel du Seigneur, mais sur leur équilibre affectif.

Oculus a écrit:
Les Evêques peuvent , en demandant une dispense à Rome, ordonner des hommes mariés et vivant maritalement , Prêtres, comme ils le font pour les diacres permanents.
Il doivent explorer d'autres voies et ne pas laisser leur Eglise
crispée sur une règle de discipline qui me semble définitivement dépassée
Par contre là je ne partage pas l'avis d'Oculus.
Je préfère m'en tenir à ce que l'Eglise a décidée pour ce temps présent.
Rien ne dit que l'Esprit-Saint, qui est toujours à l'oeuvre, ne permette pas qu'il y ait une autre ouverture possible quand le temps sera venu.
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La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise Empty
MessageSujet: Re: La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise   La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise EmptyVen 18 Avr - 21:29

Pour résumer, l'errteur pastorale des évêques face aux prêtres pédophiles a été triple:

1° Ne pas se rebndre compte que ce n'était pas un délit mais un crime.
2° Croire qu'en se contentant de les muter, ils changeraient alors que c'est INCURABLE.
3° N'avoir qu'une viser: pas le bien des enfants en danger, mais le fait d'évirter le scandale public.

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La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise Empty
MessageSujet: Re: La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise   La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise EmptySam 19 Avr - 15:29

Arnaud Dumouch a écrit:
Pour résumer, l'errteur pastorale des évêques face aux prêtres pédophiles a été triple:

1° Ne pas se rendre compte que ce n'était pas un délit mais un crime.
2° Croire qu'en se contentant de les muter, ils changeraient alors que c'est INCURABLE.
3° N'avoir qu'une viser: pas le bien des enfants en danger, mais le fait d'évirter le scandale public.

Il faut reconnaitre qu'ils n'y ont pas été aidés par le Code de Droit Canonique de l'Eglise Romaine .
j'ai fait une rapide recherche par mots clés ( sur le site du vatican ) sur pédophilie , Viol , ou abus sexuel : ces mots n'y figurent même pas!!!! Embarassed

Comment le Pape et les évêques peuvent -ils être crédibles s'ils n'entreprennent pas rapidement une réforme du Droit Canon en y incluant les abus sexuels sur mineurs, viols et pédophilie dans la liste des Crimes ,encourant de justes peines ?( à mon avis pas inférieures à celles pour Homicide )?
c'est absolument renversant de se rendre compte que le droit canonique
n'aborde pas ces sujets brûlants, et c'est scandaleux !!!
les Chrétiens laîcs ne devraient pas tolérer cette absence .
On a vraiment l'impression que la phrase de Jésus sur la la filtration des moucherons et la déglutition des chameaux s'applique parfaitement ici
Nous sommes de vrais Pharisiens !!
Il y a beaucoup , beaucoup de travail à faire pour faire évoluer les mentalités et les pratiques .... Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed
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La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise Empty
MessageSujet: Re: La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise   La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise EmptySam 19 Avr - 15:33

Cher Oculus, c'est que vous ne regardez pas les bons mots dans le CDC:

Il y figure par exemple une excommunion latae sententiae pour le prêtre qui se sert de son statut et des sacrements pour enfreindre le sixième commandement.

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MessageSujet: Re: La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise   La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise EmptySam 19 Avr - 20:52

Arnaud Dumouch a écrit:
Cher Oculus, c'est que vous ne regardez pas les bons mots dans le CDC:
Il y figure par exemple une excommunion latae sententiae pour le prêtre qui se sert de son statut et des sacrements pour enfreindre le sixième commandement.

je n'ai réussi à trouver sous le mot-clé "sixième commandement "
que les canons §1395 et suivants qui disent :

"Can. 1395 - § 1. Le clerc concubin, en dehors du cas dont il s'agit au ⇒ can. 1394, et le clerc qui persiste avec scandale dans une autre faute extérieure contre le sixième commandement du Décalogue, seront punis de suspense, et si, après monition, ils persistent dans leur délit, d'autres peines pourront être graduellement ajoutées,y compris le renvoi de l'état clérical.

§ 2. Le clerc qui a commis d'une autre façon un délit contre le sixième commandement du Décalogue, si vraiment le délit a été commis par violence ou avec menaces ou publiquement, ou bien avec un mineur de moins de seize ans, sera puni de justes peines, y compris, si le cas l'exige, le renvoi de l'état clérical.

Vous remarquerez que c'est le mot DELIT et non pas le mot CRIME
qui est utilisé. Par ailleurs peut-être pourrez-vous citer les canons où
l'on parle d'excommunication latae sententiae pour ce délit, car je ne les ai pas retrouvés.

par ailleurs pas un mot sur la faute qui consisterait de la part de l'évêque ordinaire du lieu à étouffer ce DELIT et à ne pas chercher à protéger les enfants qui pourraient être victimes de récidives dudit délinquant . Non , excusez-moi , mais je trouve qu'un bon petit toilettage
du droit canon à l'egard de la pédophilie avec sa requalification en crime,
et à la création d'un delit de non divulgation de la part de l'évêque , ne ferait aucun mal à la crédibilité et à l'honneur de l'Eglise .
On a vraiment l'impression d'un droit canon à deux vitesses:
à charge pour les non clercs et à décharge pour les clercs .
Mais vous allez me dire que je deviens pire que Torquemada ??? clown Mr.Red clown
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MessageSujet: Re: La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise   La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise EmptySam 19 Avr - 21:46

L'excommunication "latae sententiae" touche la circonstance suivante: Le prêtre abuse sexuellement, puis absout la personne pour la rassurer et pouvoir recommencer. What a Face

Et vous avez tout-à-fait raison pour ce qui est du mot "délit". Le p^rêtre pédophile doit être immédiatement et définitivement retiré du sacerdoce.

Il doit même être livré à la justice. Cet aveuglement, nopn seulement dans l'Eglise, mais dans les ministères européens de l'éducation marque une époque étonnante, faite d'aveuglement et d'apparence.

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Pour poursuivre dans la documentation :
Un site très complet et honnête: www.bishop-accoutability .org

le texte du règlement adopté par la conférence des évêques des etats-unis en 2005 : Du beau , Bon , et Solide travail: bravo Very Happy


Preamble
Since 2002, the Church in the United States has experienced a crisis without precedent in our times. The sexual abuse of children and young people by some deacons, priests, and bishops, and the ways in which these crimes and sins were addressed, have caused enormous pain, anger, and confusion. As bishops, we have acknowledged our mistakes and our roles in that suffering, and we apologize and take responsibility again for too often failing victims and the Catholic people in the past. From the depths of our hearts, we bishops express great sorrow and profound regret for what the Catholic people have endured.

With this revision of the Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People, we re-affirm our deep commitment to creating a safe environment within the Church for children and youth. We have listened to the profound pain and suffering of those victimized by sexual abuse and will continue to respond to their cries. We have agonized over the sinfulness, the criminality, and the breach of trust perpetrated by some members of the clergy. We have determined as best we can the extent of the problem of this abuse of minors by clergy in our country, and we await the results of a study of the causes and context of this problem.

We continue to have a special care for and a commitment to reaching out to the victims of sexual abuse and their families. The damage caused by sexual abuse of minors is devastating and long-lasting. We apologize to them for the grave harm that has been inflicted on them, and we offer our help for the future. The loss of trust that is often the consequence of such abuse becomes even more tragic when it leads to a loss of the faith that we have a sacred duty to foster. We make our own the words of His Holiness, Pope John Paul II: that the sexual abuse of young people is “by every standard wrong and rightly considered a crime by society; it is also an appalling sin in the eyes of God” (Address to the Cardinals of the United States and Conference Officers, April 23, 2002).

Along with the victims and their families, the entire Catholic community in this country has suffered because of this scandal. In the last three years, the intense public scrutiny of the minority of the ordained who have betrayed their calling has caused the vast majority of faithful priests and deacons to experience enormous vulnerability to being misunderstood in their ministry and even to the possibility of false accusations. We share with them a firm commitment to renewing the image of the vocation to Holy Orders so that it will continue to be perceived as a life of service to others after the example of Christ our Lord.

We, who have been given the responsibility of shepherding God’s people, will, with his help and in full collaboration with all the faithful, continue to work to restore the bonds of trust that unite us. Words alone cannot accomplish this goal. It will begin with the actions we take in our General Assembly and at home in our dioceses and eparchies.

We feel a particular responsibility for the “the ministry of reconciliation” (2 Cor 5:18) which God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ, has given us. The love of Christ impels us to ask forgiveness for our own faults but also to appeal to all—to those who have been victimized, to those who have offended, and to all who have felt the wound of this scandal—to be reconciled to God and one another.

Perhaps in a way never before experienced, we have felt the power of sin touch our entire Church family in this country; but as St. Paul boldly says, God made Christ "to be sin who did not know sin, so that we might become the righteousness of God in him" (2 Cor 5:21). May we who have known sin experience as well, through a spirit of reconciliation, God's own righteousness.

We know that after such profound hurt, healing and reconciliation are beyond human capacity alone. It is God’s grace and mercy that will lead us forward, trusting Christ’s promise: “for God all things are possible” (Mt 19:26).

In working toward fulfilling this responsibility, we have relied first of all on Almighty God to sustain us in faith and in the discernment of the right course to take.

We have received fraternal guidance and support from the Holy See that has sustained us in this time of trial.

We have relied on the Catholic faithful of the United States. Nationally and in each diocese, the wisdom and expertise of clergy, religious, and laity have contributed immensely to confronting the effects of the crisis and taking steps to resolve it. We are filled with gratitude for their great faith, their generosity, and for the spiritual and moral support that we have received from them.

We acknowledge and affirm the faithful service of the vast majority of our priests and deacons and the love that their people have for them. They deservedly have our esteem and that of the Catholic people for their good work. It is regrettable that their committed ministerial witness has been overshadowed by this crisis.

In a special way, we acknowledge those victims of clergy sexual abuse and their families who have trusted us enough to share their stories and to help us appreciate more fully the consequences of this reprehensible violation of sacred trust.

Let there now be no doubt or confusion on anyone’s part: For us, your bishops, our obligation to protect children and young people and to prevent sexual abuse flows from the mission and example given to us by Jesus Christ himself, in whose name we serve.

As we work to restore trust, we are reminded how Jesus showed constant care for the vulnerable. He inaugurated his ministry with these words of the Prophet Isaiah:

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,
because he has anointed me
to bring glad tidings to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim liberty to captives
and recovery of sight to the blind,
to let the oppressed go free,
and to proclaim a year acceptable to the Lord. (Lk 4:18-19)

In Matthew 25, the Lord, in his commission to his apostles and disciples, told them that whenever they show mercy and compassion to the least ones, they show it to him.

Jesus extended this care in a tender and urgent way to children, rebuking his disciples for keeping them away from him: “Let the children come to me” (Mt 19:14). And he uttered a grave warning that for anyone who would lead the little ones astray, it would be better for such a person “to have a great millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea” (Mt 18:6).

We hear these words of the Lord as prophetic for this moment. With a firm determination to restore the bonds of trust, we bishops recommit ourselves to a continual pastoral outreach to repair the breach with those who have suffered sexual abuse and with all the people of the Church.

In this spirit, over the last three years, the principles and procedures of the Charter have been integrated into church life.

The Office for Child and Youth Protection provides the focus for a consistent, ongoing, and comprehensive approach to creating a secure environment for young people throughout the Church in the United States.
The Office also provides the means for us to be accountable for achieving the goals of the Charter, as demonstrated by its two reports on the implementation of the Charter based on independent compliance audits.
The National Review Board is carrying on its responsibility to assist in the assessment of diocesan compliance with the Charter and to commission studies on the sexual abuse of minors, and it has issued its own Report on the Crisis in the Catholic Church in the United States.
The descriptive study of the nature and scope of sexual abuse of minors by Catholic clergy in the United States, commissioned by the National Review Board, has been completed. The resulting study, examining the historical period 1950-2002, by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice provides us with a powerful tool not only to examine our past but also to secure our future against such misconduct.
Victims’ assistance coordinators are in place throughout our nation to assist dioceses in responding to the pastoral needs of those who have been injured by abuse.
Diocesan/eparchial bishops in every diocese are advised and greatly assisted by diocesan review boards as the bishops make the decisions needed to fulfill the Charter.
Safe environment programs are in place to assist parents and children—and those who work with children—in preventing harm to young people.
Through these steps and many others, we remain committed to the safety of our children and young people.

While it seems that the scope of this disturbing problem of sexual abuse of minors by clergy has been reduced over the last decade, the harmful effects of this abuse continue to be experienced both by victims and dioceses.

Thus it is with a vivid sense of the effort which is still needed to confront the effects of this crisis fully and with the wisdom gained by the experience of the last three years that we have reviewed and revised the Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People. We now re-affirm that we will assist in the healing of those who have been injured, will do all in our power to protect children and young people, and will work with our clergy, religious, and laity to restore trust and harmony in our faith communities, as we pray for God’s kingdom to come, here on earth, as it is in heaven.

To make effective our goals of a safe environment within the Church for children and young people and of preventing sexual abuse of minors by clergy in the future, we, the members of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, have outlined in this Charter a series of practical and pastoral steps, and we commit ourselves to taking them in our dioceses and eparchies:
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,in the future, we, the members of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, have outlined in this Charter a series of practical and pastoral steps, and we commit ourselves to taking them in our dioceses and eparchies:

To Promote Healing and Reconciliation with Victims/Survivors of Sexual Abuse of Minors

ARTICLE 1. Dioceses/eparchies are to reach out to victims/survivors and their families and demonstrate a sincere commitment to their spiritual and emotional well-being. The first obligation of the Church with regard to the victims is for healing and reconciliation. Each diocese/eparchy is to continue its outreach to every person who has been the victim of sexual abuse* as a minor by anyone in church service, whether the abuse was recent or occurred many years in the past. This outreach may include provision of counseling, spiritual assistance, support groups, and other social services agreed upon by the victim and the diocese/eparchy.

Through pastoral outreach to victims and their families, the diocesan/eparchial bishop or his representative is to offer to meet with them, to listen with patience and compassion to their experiences and concerns, and to share the “profound sense of solidarity and concern” expressed by His Holiness, Pope John Paul II, in his Address to the Cardinals of the United States and Conference Officers (April 23, 2002).

ARTICLE 2. Dioceses/eparchies are to have policies and procedures in place to respond promptly to any allegation where there is reason to believe that sexual abuse of a minor has occurred. Dioceses/eparchies are to have a competent person or persons to coordinate assistance for the immediate pastoral care of persons who report having been sexually abused as minors by clergy or other church personnel. The procedures for those making a complaint are to be readily available in printed form in the principle languages in which the liturgy is celebrated in the diocese/eparchy and be the subject of public announcements at least annually.

Dioceses/eparchies are also to have a review board that functions as a confidential consultative body to the bishop/eparch. The majority of its members are to be lay persons not in the employ of the diocese/eparchy (see Norm 5 in Essential Norms for Diocesan/Eparchial Policies Dealing with Allegations of Sexual Abuse of Minors by Priests or Deacons, 2002). This board is to advise the diocesan/eparchial bishop in his assessment of allegations of sexual abuse of minors and in his determination of a cleric’s suitability for ministry. It is regularly to review diocesan/eparchial policies and procedures for dealing with sexual abuse of minors. Also, the board can review these matters both retrospectively and prospectively and give advice on all aspects of responses in connection with these cases.

ARTICLE 3. Dioceses/eparchies are not to enter into settlements which bind the parties to confidentiality unless the victim/survivor requests confidentiality and this request is noted in the text of the agreement.

To Guarantee an Effective Response to Allegations of Sexual Abuse of Minors

ARTICLE 4. Dioceses/eparchies are to report an allegation of sexual abuse of a person who is a minor to the public authorities. Dioceses/eparchies are to comply with all applicable civil laws with respect to the reporting of allegations of sexual abuse of minors to civil authorities and cooperate in their investigation in accord with the law of the jurisdiction in question.

Dioceses/eparchies are to cooperate with public authorities about reporting cases even when the person is no longer a minor.

In every instance, dioceses/eparchies are to advise victims of their right to make a report to public authorities and support this right.

ARTICLE 5. We affirm the words of His Holiness, Pope John Paul II, in his Address to the Cardinals of the United States and Conference Officers: “There is no place in the priesthood or religious life for those who would harm the young.”

Sexual abuse of a minor by a cleric is a crime in the universal law of the Church (CIC, c. 1395 §2; CCEO, c. 1453 §1). Because of the seriousness of this matter, jurisdiction has been reserved to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (Motu proprio, Sacramentorum sanctitatis tutela, AAS, 93, 2001). Sexual abuse of a minor is also a crime in all civil jurisdictions in the United States.

Diocesan/eparchial policy is to provide that for even a single act of sexual abuse of a minor*—whenever it occurred—which is admitted or established after an appropriate process in accord with canon law, the offending priest or deacon is to be permanently removed from ministry and, if warranted, dismissed from the clerical state. In keeping with the stated purpose of this Charter, an offending priest or deacon is to be offered therapeutic professional assistance both for the purpose of prevention and also for his own healing and well-being.

The diocesan/eparchial bishop is to exercise his power of governance, within the parameters of the universal law of the Church, to ensure that any priest or deacon subject to his governance who has committed even one act of sexual abuse of a minor as described below shall not continue in ministry.

A priest or deacon who is accused of sexual abuse of a minor is to be accorded the presumption of innocence during the investigation of the allegation and all appropriate steps are to be taken to protect his reputation. He is to be encouraged to retain the assistance of civil and canonical counsel. If the allegation is not proven, every step possible is to be taken to restore his good name, should it have been harmed.

In fulfilling this article, dioceses/eparchies are to follow the requirements of the universal law of the Church and of the Essential Norms approved for the United States.

ARTICLE 6. There are to be clear and well-publicized diocesan/eparchial standards of ministerial behavior and appropriate boundaries for clergy and for any other paid personnel and volunteers of the church in positions of trust who have regular contact with children and young people.

ARTICLE 7. Dioceses/eparchies are to be open and transparent in communicating with the public about sexual abuse of minors by clergy within the confines of respect for the privacy and the reputation of the individuals involved. This is especially so with regard to informing parish and other church communities directly affected by ministerial misconduct involving minors.

To Ensure the Accountability of Our Procedures

ARTICLE 8. By the authority of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, the mandate of the Ad Hoc Committee on Sexual Abuse is renewed, and it is now constituted the Committee for the Protection of Children and Young People. It becomes a standing committee of the Conference. Its membership is to include representation from all the episcopal regions of the country, with new appointments staggered to maintain continuity in the effort to protect children and youth.

The Committee is to advise the USCCB on all matters related to child and youth protection and is to oversee the development of the plans, programs, and budget of the Office of Child and Youth Protection. It is to provide the USCCB with comprehensive planning and recommendations concerning child and youth protection by coordinating the efforts of the Office and the National Review Board.

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.../... la FIN
.

ARTICLE 9. The Office for Child and Youth Protection, established by the Conference of Catholic Bishops, is to staff the Committee for the Protection of Children and Young People and be a resource for dioceses/eparchies for the implementation of “safe environment” programs and for suggested training and development of diocesan personnel responsible for child and youth protection programs, taking into account the financial and other resources, as well as the population, area, and demographics of the diocese/eparchy.

The Office is to produce an annual public report on the progress made in implementing and maintaining the standards in this Charter. The report is to be based on an annual audit process whose method, scope, and cost are to be approved by the Administrative Committee on the recommendation of the Committee for the Protection of Children and Young People. This public report is to include the names of those dioceses/eparchies which the audit shows are not in compliance with the provisions and expectations of the Charter.

As a member of the Conference staff, the Executive Director of the Office is appointed by and reports to the General Secretary. The Executive Director is to provide the Committee for the Protection of Children and Young People and the National Review Board with regular reports of the Office’s activities.

ARTICLE 10. The whole Church, especially the laity, at both the diocesan and national levels, needs to be engaged in maintaining safe environments in the Church for children and young people.

The Committee for the Protection of Children and Young People is to be assisted by the National Review Board, a consultative body established in 2002 by the USCCB. The Board will review the annual report of the Office of Child and Youth Protection on the implementation of this Charter in each diocese/eparchy and any recommendations that emerge from it, and offer its own assessment regarding its approval and publication to the Conference President.

The Board will also advise the Conference President on future members. The Board members are appointed by the Conference President in consultation with the Administrative Committee and are accountable to him and to the USCCB Executive Committee. Before a candidate is contacted, the Conference President is to seek and obtain, in writing, the endorsement of the candidate’s diocesan bishop. The Board is to operate in accord with the statutes and bylaws of the USCCB and within procedural guidelines to be developed by the Board in consultation with the Committee for the Protection of Children and Young People and approved by the USCCB Administrative Committee. These guidelines are to set forth such matters as the Board’s purpose and responsibility, officers, terms of office, and frequency of reports to the Conference President on its activities.

The Board will offer its advice as it collaborates with the Committee for the Protection of Children and Young People on matters of child and youth protection, specifically on policies and best practices. The Board and Committee for the Protection of Children and Young People will meet jointly several times a year.

The Board will review the work of the Office of Child and Youth Protection and make recommendations to the Director. It will assist the Director in the development of resources for dioceses.

The Board is to oversee the completion of the study of the causes and context of the recent crisis. The Board will offer its assessment of the data gathered and preliminary results to the Committee for the Protection of Children and Young People as the study moves forward.

ARTICLE 11. The President of the Conference is to inform the Holy See of this revised Charter to indicate the manner in which we, the Catholic bishops, together with the entire Church in the United States, intend to continue our commitment to the protection of children and young people. The President is also to share with the Holy See the annual reports on the implementation of the Charter.

To Protect the Faithful

ARTICLE 12. Dioceses/eparchies are to maintain “safe environment” programs which the diocesan/eparchial bishop deems to be in accord with Catholic moral principles. They are to be conducted cooperatively with parents, civil authorities, educators, and community organizations to provide education and training for children, youth, parents, ministers, educators, volunteers, and others about ways to make and maintain a safe environment for children and young people. Dioceses/eparchies are to make clear to clergy and all members of the community the standards of conduct for clergy and other persons in positions of trust with regard to children.

ARTICLE 13. Dioceses/eparchies are to evaluate the background of all incardinated and non-incardinated priests and deacons who are engaged in ecclesiastical ministry in the diocese/eparchy and of all diocesan/eparchial and parish/school or other paid personnel and volunteers whose duties include ongoing, unsupervised contact with minors. Specifically, they are to utilize the resources of law enforcement and other community agencies. In addition, they are to employ adequate screening and evaluative techniques in deciding the fitness of candidates for ordination (cf. National Conference of Catholic Bishops, Program of Priestly Formation, [Fifth Edition], 2006, no. 39).

ARTICLE 14. Transfers of clergy who have committed an act of sexual abuse against a minor for residence, including retirement, shall be as in accord with Norm 12 of the Essential Norms. (Cf. Proposed Guidelines on the Transfer or Assignment of Clergy and Religious, adopted by the USCCB, the Conference of Major Superiors of Men, the Leadership Conference of Women Religious, and the Council of Major Superiors of Women Religious in 1993.)

ARTICLE 15. To ensure continuing collaboration and mutuality of effort in the protection of children and young people on the part of the bishops and religious ordinaries, two representatives of the Conference of Major Superiors of Men are to serve as consultants to the Committee for the Protection of Children and Young People. At the invitation of the Major Superiors, the Committee will designate two of its members to consult with its counterpart at CMSM. Diocesan/eparchial bishops and major superiors of clerical institutes or their delegates are to meet periodically to coordinate their roles concerning the issue of allegations made against a cleric member of a religious institute ministering in a diocese/eparchy.

ARTICLE 16. Given the extent of the problem of the sexual abuse of minors in our society, we are willing to cooperate with other churches and ecclesial communities, other religious bodies, institutions of learning, and other interested organizations in conducting research in this area.

ARTICLE 17. We pledge our complete cooperation with the Apostolic Visitation of our diocesan/eparchial seminaries and religious houses of formation recommended in the Interdicasterial Meeting with the Cardinals of the United States and the Conference Officers in April 2002.

We commit ourselves to work individually in our dioceses/eparchies and together as a Conference, through the appropriate committees, to strengthen our programs both for initial priestly formation and for the ongoing formation of priests. With new urgency, we will promote programs of human formation for chastity and celibacy for both seminarians and priests based upon the criteria found in Pastores Dabo Vobis, the Program of Priestly Formation, and the Basic Plan for the Ongoing Formation of Priests. We will continue to assist priests, deacons, and seminarians in living out their vocation in faithful and integral ways.

We bishops and eparchs commit ourselves to work as one with our brother priests and deacons to foster reconciliation among all people in our dioceses/eparchies, especially with those individuals who were themselves abused and the communities that have suffered because of the sexual abuse of minors that occurred in their midst.

Conclusion

As we wrote three years ago, “It is within this context of the essential soundness of the priesthood and of the deep faith of our brothers and sisters in the Church that we know that we can meet and resolve this crisis for now and the future.”

We wish to re-affirm once again that the vast majority of priests and deacons serve their people faithfully and that they have the esteem and affection of their people. They also have our love and esteem and our commitment to their good names and well-being.

An essential means of dealing with the crisis is prayer for healing and reconciliation, and acts of reparation for the grave offense to God and the deep wound inflicted upon his holy people. Closely connected to prayer and acts of reparation is the call to holiness of life and the care of the diocesan/eparchial bishop to ensure that he and his priests avail themselves of the proven ways of avoiding sin and growing in holiness of life.

It is with reliance on prayer and penance that we renew the pledges which we made in the original Charter:

We pledge most solemnly to one another and to you, God’s people, that we will work to our utmost for the protection of children and youth.

We pledge that we will devote to this goal the resources and personnel necessary to accomplish it.

We pledge that we will do our best to ordain to the priesthood and put into positions of trust only those who share this commitment to protecting children and youth.

We pledge that we will work toward healing and reconciliation for those sexually abused by clerics.

Much has been done to honor these pledges. We devoutly pray that God who has begun this good work in us will bring it to fulfillment.

This Charter is published for the dioceses/eparchies of the United States. It is to be reviewed again in five years by the Committee for the Protection of Children and Young People with the advice of the National Review Board. The results of this review are to be presented to the full Conference of Bishops for confirmation.


*In accord with Sacramentorum sanctitatis tutela (SST), article 4 §1, sexual abuse, for purposes of this Charter, shall include any offense by a cleric against the Sixth Commandment of the Decalogue with a minor as understood in the Code of Canon Law, c. 1395 §2 (“A cleric who in another way has committed an offense against the sixth commandment of the Decalogue, if the delict was committed by force or threats or publicly or with a minor below the age of sixteen years [raised in SST to eighteen years which has been the age of majority for the USA since 1994], is to be punished with just penalties, not excluding dismissal from the clerical state if the case so warrants”) and the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches, c. 1453 §1 (“A cleric who lives in concubinage or gives permanent scandal by publicly sinning against chastity is to be punished with a suspension, to which, other penalties can be gradually added up to deposition, if he persists in the offense”).

If there is any doubt whether a specific act qualifies as an external, objectively grave violation, the writings of recognized moral theologians should be consulted, and the opinions of recognized experts should be appropriately obtained (Canonical Delicts Involving Sexual Misconduct and Dismissal from the Clerical State, 1995, p. 6). Ultimately, it is the responsibility of the diocesan bishop/eparch, with the advice of a qualified review board, to determine the gravity of the alleged act.


The document Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People was developed by the Ad Hoc Committee for Sexual Abuse of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB). It was approved by the full body of U.S. Catholic bishops at its June 2005 General Meeting and has been authorized for publication by the undersigned.

Msgr. William P. Fay
General Secretary, USCCB

Scripture texts used in this work are taken from the New American Bible, copyright © 1991, 1986, and 1970 by the Confraternity of Christian Doctrine, Washington, DC 20017 a

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MessageSujet: Re: La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise   La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise EmptyLun 21 Avr - 21:00

Oui ! L'Eglise a compris. Elle a compris que les déviations sexuelles sont, une fois adultes, défibnitives et inguerrissables. A l'adolescence, c'est encore possible. A 25 ans et plus, c'est plus que rarissime.

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MessageSujet: Re: La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise   La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise EmptyLun 21 Avr - 21:10

Cher Oculus,

merci pour les textes compréhensibles pour ceux qui pratiquent l'anglais couramment ! Crying or Very sad

Un lien vers un site n'aurait pas été plus sympa ? Laughing Basketball

J'ai rien compris moi à tous ces textes scratch , et c'est si long... shaking

D'accord avec vous Arnaud, l'Eglise n'est pas bouchée, et notre saint Père Benoit XVI a pris le problème à bras le corps.
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Oculus

Oculus


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La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise Empty
MessageSujet: Re: La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise   La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise EmptyMar 22 Avr - 20:40

Jeb a écrit:
Cher Oculus,
merci pour les textes compréhensibles pour ceux qui pratiquent l'anglais couramment ! Crying or Very sad
Un lien vers un site n'aurait pas été plus sympa ? Laughing Basketball
J'ai rien compris moi à tous ces textes scratch , et c'est si long... shaking
D'accord avec vous Arnaud, l'Eglise n'est pas bouchée, et notre saint Père Benoit XVI a pris le problème à bras le corps.

OK Jeb sorry, mais je n'ai pas trouvé ce texte en français
sauf dans la documentation catholique , mais c'est payant ( 74 euros
l'abonnement annuel )
allez donc sur http://www.usccb.org/ocyp/charter.shtml
et utilisez la barre d'outil google avec son traducteur automatique
c'est pas du flaubert, mais on arrive à comprendre .
l'autre site où on trouve tout ( en anglais Embarassed )
est www.bishop-accountability.org

Amicalement study Basketball study
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MessageSujet: Re: La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise   La gestion de la pédophilie par l'Eglise Empty

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